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Town of Bristol Budget Committee Minutes October 6, 2008
APPROVED ON: 11/3/08
ATTENDED: Andrew Hemingway (Chairman), Dan Bouchard (Vice Chairman), Ron Preble, Richard Walenda, David Carr, Jon Thouin, Paul Simard, Ashley Dolloff, Andrew Williamson, Brenda Biss (enters 7:03 p.m.), Bruce VanDerven (Selectmen), and Diane Marden (Secretary).
ABSENT: Dorcas Gordon, and Tom Winn, were not present at this meeting.
OTHERS PRESENT: None
The Chairman, Andrew Hemingway called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m., at the Bristol Town Offices, and the meeting was video taped for LRPA.
Minutes of September 8, 2008
Paul Simard made the motion to accept the minutes of September 8, 2008. Richard Walenda seconded the motion. The chairman asked for any errors, omissions, or amendments to the minutes. Town Manager Weston requested changes be made to the following:
P2, paragraph 1, line 3 change “lean” to “lien” P3, paragraph 4, line 4 add the word fabricating after steel company P3, paragraph 5, line 1 change “twelve’s” to “twelfth’s” P4, paragraph 1, line 7 omit above and beyond, change to most claims P4, paragraph 5, line 1 omit at a low, change to expensive P5, paragraph 1, line 3 omit 40%, change to 18 cents above rack price P5, paragraph 3, line 6 add “paid by the State” after Westshore Road P5, paragraph 6, line 9 omit “house” change to “Town” P6, paragraph 1, line 1 add “Committee” after Police Building P6, paragraph 1, line 4 add the word not before the word continue P6, paragraph 1, line 5 omit not knowing what direction to take next
David Carr made the following changes to the September 8th minutes:
P5, paragraph 6, line 1 omit contained within the budget are, add which were already 50% P5, paragraph 6, line 2 omit in the majority, change to in the many instances September 8, 2008 Meeting Minutes Continued
P6, paragraph 2, line 4 & 5 after telephone add radio, omit or both P6, paragraph 2, line 6 & 8 change Paul Simard to David Carr
Bruce Van Derven made the following changes to the minutes.
P1, paragraph 1, line 4 change Selectmen’s Rep. to Selectmen P5, paragraph 6, line 6 & 7 change Mr. Carr to Mr. Van Derven
Mr. Weston asked if the Chairman would like him to edit the minutes prior to the meeting or would he prefer that it be done at the meeting. Chairman Hemingway stated he prefers that it happens at the meeting so that everyone is aware of any changes made to the minutes. Members of the Budget Committee agreed with the Chairman.
Paul Simard made the motion to accept the minutes as amended. Mr. Van Derven seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED 9-2 abstentions
Budget Sheets September 25, 2008
Chairman Hemingway stated he would like the budget sheets one week prior to the meeting. Mr. Weston suggested getting the end of the month report from the Town Accountant out for the meeting at the beginning of the month to avoid any confusion. Mr. Weston stated he is concerned that things are not complete at times based on the dates of deposit’s made by the treasurer, also keeping in mind that things vary up until the reconciliation of the accounts when the bank statements arrive. Mr. Hemingway stated the Budget Committee is here to keep check of the bottom line, not to see what each department is spending. David Carr asked if the Chairman was suggesting not to look at each line item? Mr. Hemingway stated the budget they are looking at is last year's budget, and I am not saying to not look at each line item, but rather in the point of view of looking to plan for the future budget. Mr. Hemingway continued to explain that we need to look at the line items for things like lines that continually are overspent, in order to plan ahead. Mr. Hemingway stated we are not an accountability board. We are looking at this as a foundation or a building block. Mr. Carr asked if we would be looking at the departments or individual line items when working on next year's budget? Mr. Hemingway stated we are taking this year's information, using it as a tool in order to build next year's budget.
Bruce Van Derven stated that at the last meeting Mr. Carr looked at the current budget noting a number of issues that needed to be corrected in accounting portion of the line items. Mr. Van Derven stated many eyes looking at these things are good. Mr. Hemingway stated he just thinks the Budget Committee should stick to what the budget committee’s job is, rather than trying to manage each individual line item. Our job is not to manage any department or the town manager. Richard Walenda stated we need to sharpen our pencils, and make some cuts this year as the economy is hurting a lot of people. Budget Sheets September 25, 2008 Discussions Continued
Line Items 01-3190-100 and 01-3190-100
Paul Simard stated in last months' minutes (9/8/08) the Town Manager stated he had anticipated $45,000 in revenues, and he does not see that reflected in the current budget’s revenue sheets. Chairman Hemingway asked that account numbers be used when referring to line items. Mr. Weston stated as he recalls this information came from the MS4, and it consists of adding and subtracting a couple of lines to get to that figure. Dan Bouchard asked if the anticipated becomes added to the collected $35,400 or if of the $45,000 is the total anticipated. Mr. Weston stated the $45,000 would be the total collected. Mr. Weston stated he is very concerned the revenues are lagging behind the estimates. Mr. Weston explained the budget was built upon doing a multi-million dollar project that had been defeated so adjustments need to be made based on the three articles that had been defeated in March. Mr. Weston stated the revenues need just as much attention in these budget’s as does the expenditures. Mr. Weston explained for example if we lose $50,000 of revenues, which means you are off 10 cents on the tax rate setting.
David Carr asked if the Town Manager could provide comparisons between revenues and expenses so the Budget Committee could see if the budget should be adjusted up or down based on the changes in revenues? Town Manager Weston stated he is preparing a budget for them to compare the revenues and expenses over the past 5 years. Mr. Weston stated he has gone back and complied 5 years of history of the tax rate settings for the county, town, and school. Mr. Weston stated this will allow us to understand the entire history over the past five years.
Paul Simard stated over the past 10 years' taxpayers were promised that the re-appraisals will be done on an incremental basis the latest being 20% per year with a total reevaluation every 5 years, has this been done? Town Manager Weston stated it is his understanding that the Town assessor has been doing that. Mr. Weston stated the 20% is done every year, and then a total revaluation every 5 years. Mr. Weston stated there will be a comprehensive relisting of the town every 5 years. Mr. Weston stated new value comes on immediately, although if your house burns down on April 2nd, you do pay taxes on that the entire year. There have been so many problems over the years with previous assessing firms that those line items are currently over budget at this time.
Town Manager, Weston explained as you go through cycle’s in the real estate market the assessors do a sales ratio study it is determined that your assessment on your tax bill is at fair market value, and over time this value decreases. Chairman Hemingway asked that committee members get back to the budget sheets at this time. Mr. Simard commented that if property values go down, that effects the revenue side of the budget sheets. Mr. Hemingway agreed.
Expenses and Encumbrances
David Carr stated he has some questions he would like to ask. Chairman Hemingway stated he could ask them at this time.
01-4193-390 TMP Service Fee
David Car asked what this line item is entails? Mr. Weston stated he did not know and he would obtain the answer for Mr. Carr.
01-4194-430 GGB Maintenance and Repairs
David Carr stated the numbers in this line item does not seem to add up to him? Mr. Weston stated these are encumbrances and really should be added. Mr. Weston stated an encumbrance is a carry forward for years prior. Mr. Weston stated when a project is not completed in a given year, it can be carried forward to the next, but a contract is required to carry that forward. These funds should they never be expended on the project can go back into the general fund. The math is add encumbrances, add the current year's budget, and delete the current year expenditures to come back to the remaining balance.
Ron Preble asked where these funds are kept? Mr. Weston stated this is all fund balance is built up by revenues exceeding estimates and they lapse to fund balance. Mr. Preble asked if this is an account that funds go into when not spent? Mr. Weston explained the encumbrances are ear marked for future use, and the balances are lapsed. Mr. Preble asked if there was any place to see this at the end of the year? Mr. Weston explained it is seen in the end of the year audit. Mr. Weston stated the auditor’s were two weeks ago and met with the Selectmen and we are in the black $166,000. When the Selectmen sit down to set a tax rate they have the prerogative to appropriate for fund balance.
01-4210-561 Special Operations Unit
Mr. Carr asked how that was handled since it is not completely a town operation? Mr. Weston stated we currently have a law suit pending against the Special Operations Unit. Bristol is insured through the Local Government Center, but it consists of 23 Special Operations Units in the State of New Hampshire. We have insurance to cover our officer’s when doing work for the Town of Bristol, and then insurance that covers them while working out of the SOU. State and federal funds are available that secure the operation of the Special Operations Unit. Paul Simard asked if the taxpayer of Bristol incurs any of the expense? Chairman Hemingway stated it shows in the budget $2,500.
01-4210-893 Civil Events
David Carr asked the Town Manager for an explanation of exactly what line item 01-4210-893 entails?
01-4210-893 Civil Events Discussion Continued
Mr. Weston stated it covers detail at the fireworks, parades, marathons, and other civil events. Mr. Van Derven stated through the warrant articles that the fire works, memorial day, old home day, and a couple of others that they were not going to be charged. Mr. Weston stated that often they do not charge as they are doing a civic duty for the town.
Paul Simard asked about overtime relative to dump stickers? Chairman Hemingway stated the question crossed the line. Mr. Hemingway stated we have no control over approved overtime. Mr. Simard stated he would like to be able to answer the question when asked by taxpayers. Mr. Hemingway stated that question should be deflected to the Town Manager. Mr. Simard deflects the question to Mr. Weston. Mr. Hemingway states that can be asked of the Town Manager at another time, but is inappropriate at a Budget Committee meeting.
01-4220-810 through 01-4220-817
David Carr explained that these line items are purchased every year, and feels they should be put back into the regular operating budgets, and not in the capital budget.
01-4723-830 Tax Anticipation Note
David Carr stated he had read in the Selectmen’s Minutes that one (1) and a half million dollars had been authorized for the anticipation of taxes. Has any of that been borrowed? Mr. Weston stated “No, we still have balances and we have not borrowed.” Mr. Carr asked would this have been from last year? Mr. Carr stated it does show expenditures of this year? Mr. Weston stated he suspects it may have been a carry over or something borrowed from last year. Mr. Weston only two things could have happened it was either borrowed the end of last year or the beginning of this year. Mr. Carr stated up to last year we have not had to borrow in anticipation of taxes for many years. Mr. Weston stated it is happening because the fund balance is not adequate to carry us through the deficit cash periods of the year that are June and December. Mr. Weston stated the Town is at its leanest just before property taxes are paid. The fund balance keeps going down, and it needs to be kept at an adequate level to avoid this from occurring.
Bruce Van Derven stated that the Selectmen when discussing lining up the fiscal year had talked DRA trying to decide whether that one 18 month budget would be feasible, and it was determined that it would be years before you see any benefit from it. Mr. Van Derven stated this was some of the problem when look at this.
Ron Preble asked if the idea of going to a fiscal calendar year has now been dropped? Mr. Van Derven stated former Town Manager, Elizabeth Corrow was very sharp with numbers and she talked to DRA, LGC, and another organization who said the 18 month budget is not well received. Mr. Preble asked if this is now forgotten?
01-4723-830 Tax Anticipation Note Discussions Continued
Mr. Van Derven and Town Manager Weston stated they would not say it has been forgotten. Mr. Weston stated the time to do a fiscal year change is when your fund balance is at its healthiest. Mr. Weston stated it may take a few years to get the fund up where it needs to be, and then maybe try an 18 month fiscal year at that time. Mr. Van Derven stated when he brought in the SB2 article last year he had a choice of March or May for a Town Meeting, and he chose May because he thought it would force the issue to get the years lined up and that did not pass.
Chairman Hemingway asked for additional discussion of the budget sheets. No other discussion occurred.
Correspondence
Chairman Hemingway stated he does have some correspondence in the file, but there is no need to discuss any of it as it pertains to seminars and things of that nature. Mr. Hemingway passed the correspondence file around for anyone who may be interested in attending any of the events within the file.
Schedule for 2008/2009 Budget Sessions
Chairman Hemingway asked Budget to review the 2008/2009 Budget Sessions schedule. Mr. Hemingway stated he wanted to ask members is there a more efficient manner to get this done while moving the process along at the same time. Mr. Hemingway stated he does not feel it is necessary for each department to give a two hour presentation to the committee each year, and wanted to know how other committee members felt about this? Mr. Hemingway stated he would like to propose reviewing the budgets a week prior to the meeting, and look at where they are proposing increases and decreases. Therefore, we can meet with more than one department each week, making the process more efficient. Mr. Hemingway asked for discussion on the subject. Mr. Preble stated he does not believe the Budget Committee asked for the presentation. Mr. Carr stated last year they voted to put in half of the wage increases, and it is expected that the other half will be put into the budget this year. Mr. Carr explained that is about $150,000 and somewhere it must be determined how that is going to fit into the budget if it is going to be fit into the budget.
Town Manager Weston stated hours could be spent going through line by line, and he feels the budget could be looked at in segments to move it along simply by looking at the 8-12 policy issues. Mr. Weston stated in order to get it into a Warrant Article that could be better understood.
Paul Simard stated we should look closer at the revenues and decide what to increase or decrease from there? Mr. Weston stated that could be part of the scenario.
Schedule for 2008/2009 Budget Sessions Discussions Continued
Chairman Hemingway asked if everyone feels it is important to meet with every department head? Mr. Simard stated it seems appropriate to afford them the opportunity to discuss their budget with the committee. Mr. Hemingway stated he has talked to department heads and not one of them looks forward to meeting with the budget committee. Mr. Hemingway stated he is not saying not to meet with department heads, but to make the process more efficient with our time.
Bruce Van Derven stated everyone in the state probably look at this process differently. We are not only looking at the bottom line, but need to look at what kinds of services are needed within the community. Mr. Van Derven stated the schedule is a withering schedule, that is unbelievable through the holiday season. Mr. Van Derven stated he does not see a problem with doing more than one department per night. He would rather see the Town Manager overseeing the technicalities, and bring in the department heads to ask them specific questions on specific line items. Mr. Hemingway agreed with Mr. Van Derven. Dan Bouchard stated he does not feel we should say we do not want to meet with the department heads, but rather limit the amount of time they spend on speaking. Mr. Hemingway stated we should let the Town Manager buffer as much of the budget as possible. Mr. Weston stated he has already started the process of going through budgets with the department heads. Mr. Hemingway stated most of the questions could be answered by the Town Manager. Mr. Hemingway suggests inviting the department heads, going through specific questions on the budget, and at that time should anything come up that the Town Manager can not answer then the department head is available to answer the specific question.
Jon Thouin stated the past few years the trouble has been getting the actual budget from the departments. Mr. Weston stated if you do not have the budgets before the meeting you are unable to make any decisions intelligently. Mr. Hemingway stated this is why it is imperative that we receive department budgets one week prior to meeting with them, or we just do not meet with them. Jon Thouin stated as Budget Committee members we are still required to look at the budget line item for line item, but we can filter a lot of this out by having the budget one week in advance. Mr. Hemingway stated in these meetings with the department heads we need to focus on the big changes and policy. While in budget deliberations we then take the policy questions putting them into what we have seen from experience. Also, seeing what we see going forward into the line items, and actually prepare the upcoming budget.
Richard Walenda stated we have a big responsibility to taxpayers we can not just run through the budget. Dan Bouchard stated if you have those questions then bring them up before the committee. Mr. Bouchard stated we are not suggesting we do not look at the budget, but rather not discuss the things we all agree upon.
Schedule for 2008/2009 Budget Sessions Continued Discussions
Bruce Van Derven made the motion to have the Town Manager and Chairman to come up with a schedule to reduce the number of dates. Paul Simard seconded the motion. Ron Preble stated he would like to see the schedule stay the same, he would rather us cancel the end of the meeting schedule than to not have enough time to get through it all.
Ron Preble stated what used to happen is we would schedule fewer dates, and stay until ten or eleven each night, and no one could think straight. We then set a time limit and more dates, and it was much nicer. Jon Thouin stated he would rather see the dates blocked, and if we get through things earlier then that’s wonderful. Mr. Van Derven stated he believes a schedule can be completed before the November 3rd meeting.
Dan Bouchard states the motion is to let the Town Manager and Chairman comes up with a more streamline schedule for the next meeting. Jon Thouin stated he believes two things are going on here, and he would like to see a blocked out schedule to know what nights we are going to be here. Both Dan Bouchard or Jon Thouin feels the dates should be blocked even if we do not need them. Dan Bouchard calls for a vote on the motion.
Previous Motion: Bruce Van Derven previously made the motion to allow the Town Manager and Chairman of the Budget Committee to discuss the 2008/2009 Budget Session Schedule. This motion was previously seconded by Paul Simard. MOTION CARRIED, 9-1 opposed, 1 abstention
Meeting of November 3, 2008
Jon Thouin asked the Chairman if the Secretary could mail out the items to review for the November 3, 2008, meeting. Mr. Weston stated Social Service Agencies are scheduled for the November 3rd meeting. Mr. Weston stated he needed to speak with the Secretary regarding the Budget Books. Mr. Weston stated he could have them ready for pick up in Town Offices.
Other Issues
Chairman Hemingway stated he would like to cover other issues at this time. Mr. Weston stated he did get the answers to the questions proposed by members from the September 8, 2008, meeting.
Question: Number of properties in delinquencies?
The Tax Collector sent out 2,792 tax bills. The dollars outstanding for the years' 2004-2007 is $160,104.30. She would have to hand count the actual number of properties in delinquencies.
Other Issues Discussions Continued
Question: Is the Police Department Speed Control trailer being rented out for revenues?
Mr. Weston stated the Police Chief has not been rented out the Speed Control trailer, but it has gone out to Tilton one time. The Chief indicates he had never intended to rent the unit out for revenues.
Question: Central Street Bridge budget?
Mr. Weston stated the initial bid was $4,268,654 put in by Winterset Construction out of Lydonville, VT. This project was over bid. SEA is the project engineer.
Question: 01-4130-810 EX New Equipment?
These small expenditures were two staples items. The Town Account tells me this was a chair and two filing cabinets.
Question: What has been spent out of line item 01-4130-691 Town Manager Expenses?
This has a total expenditure of $851.45.
Question: Police Department detailed cruiser maintenance report?
Mr. Weston stated he has that information. David Carr asked for a copy of the report? Mr. Weston stated he would email it to the secretary, and have her send it out to Budget Committee members. Mr. Weston stated the fuel price is based on the rack price. Mr. Weston stated there was discussion about limiting the use of the 4x4, and that vehicle will come out of the fleet this year. Ron Preble asked if a new one will be purchased? Mr. Weston stated it will be replaced with a new one, and that will appear in this years CIP budget.
Paul Simard stated there is rumor that more than one police vehicle is being taken home. Mr. Weston stated the Police Chief takes a vehicle home, and the lieutenant also takes one home when on duty. Mr. Van Derven stated this question is out of line as a Budget Committee member. These types of questions should be deflected to the Town Manager to avoid these types of questions being filtered through committee’s. Chairman Hemingway agreed.
Question: Maximization of Bike Patrol?
Mr. Weston stated he spoke to the Police Chief and he stated he does attempt to use Bike Patrol as often as possible throughout the season.
Other Issues Discussion Continued
Question: Summary of Cost of Waste Disposal?
Mr. Weston stated they have requested a full report from Waste Disposal in Penacook.
Question: Eleven line items having a zero balance?
Mr. Weston stated the Town Accountant has gone through to place those items within the appropriate line items. Some are still there based on they have encumbrances.
Question: Assessing hours?
Mr. Weston stated he has a meeting with the Assessor relative his hours decreasing.
Question: Plymouth Dispatch definition of a Service Call ?
Mr. Weston stated the definition of a service call is any action intention or response attended by a police officer. It is when the unit or patrol officer responds to an incident. It is the IMC definitions of service calls, and it is protocol.
David Carr stated he would like to see the previous motion from the Budget Committee last years minutes relative to the pay classification study. The Secretary agreed to email that to everyone.
Paul Simard asked if the Town is currently on a Hiring freeze? Mr. Weston stated not at this time. Mr. Weston explained that currently a FF/EMT will be hired but he would not hire a non-essential position at this time. Richard Walenda commented that there are too many Chiefs.
Adjournment
Ron Preble made the motion to adjourn at 9:15 p.m. Ashley Dolloff seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIED, 11-0
The next meeting of the Budget Committee is scheduled for Monday, November 3, 2008, at 7:00 p.m. The meeting will be located in the lower level of the Bristol Town Office’s.
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